Frank Harkins, Mike Goldstein and Dave Bett, clockwise from upper left.
Published July 23, 2021 by Mike Goldstein, AlbumCoverHallofFame.com
The packaging of retail (i.e., physical) recorded music products is an expression of the relationship – often, a delicate balance – between a musical act, his/her/their record label, the creative/production teams commissioned for the projects and, of course, the music-buying public. Each brings a certain set of expectations to every project and expects those desires to be appreciated and respected if the resulting products are to ultimately please each constituency:
- the musicians want to make sure that their new musical efforts aren’t reduced to secondary importance or that their fans aren’t left wondering “what the #%!* were they thinking?”
- label execs will want to know that their investments in packaging and related marketing will eventually pay off via increased product sales.
- the design and pre-production personnel working on the project (whether in-house and/or freelance talent), along with the printing/manufacturing companies tasked to bring designs to life as finished products, all want to deliver work they can be proud of and that makes their various client(s) happy and
- consumers of recorded music products want to feel that their purchases are moneys well-spent and, as a benefit, are left feeling that their favorite musical acts have delivered “something special” to them as their loyal fans.
Throughout the history of the record business, there have always been examples of exemplary work in this area, where some musical acts have delivered on the promise of “something special” for their fans more often than most, and you’ll find many notable examples of these stand-outs both in the archives of the Album Cover Hall of Fame’s annual voting results and in the results of the several notable award shows that bestow the shiny trophies they’re famous for to the creators of the past years’ most-deserving representations of the record-packaging craft. In doing the research for a paper I’ve been working on about one segment of the retail music business – i.e., the making of multi-disc packages – AKA “box sets” and/or “special limited-edition packages” – I have been able to connect with a number of the most-successful people (individuals and teams) working in this area today to get their take on what goes in to the conceptualizing, production and manufacturing of these increasingly popular products.
Knowing several of the key players at the labels that have won accolades for their box sets and reaching deep into my Rolodex (kids, ask your parents), I contacted the two people at Sony Music who lead the charge in producing these packages for the various labels (and their associated acts) working under the Sony Music umbrella (including Columbia, RCA, Epic, Legacy and others) – Frank Harkins (VP/Creative Director for Sony Music Entertainment and Legacy Records) and Dave Bett (VP/Creative Director for Sony Music Entertainment and Columbia Records) – and, via the miracle of modern technology that we’ve all been forced to use while the world’s been shut inside this past year and a half (the now-universal “Zoom Meeting”) – recently interviewed the pair, the results of which I’ve edited to bring to you now in good old-fashioned text form. In the interview, you’ll learn more about what goes in to selecting the music that will get the box/special edition packaging treatment and then the enormous amount of work it takes to put together and deliver a truly memorable collectible bundle of music and related materials (who could have guessed!).
As an added bonus, I’m also happy to be able deliver excerpts from an unpublished interview I’d done pre-COVID with another pair of Sony/Legacy award-winning creatives – Meghan Foley, who, along with Annie Stoll and their esteemed client, helped create the zany-yet-brand-perfect box set containing the definitive collection of the works of one Alfred Matthew “Weird Al” Yankovic (Squeeze Box: The Complete Works Of “Weird Al” Yankovic), which went on to win the Grammy Award in 2018 in the “Best Boxed or Special Limited Edition Package” category.
Rather than explain the sad chain of events that caused this interview to remain sitting unused on my hard drive for this long while, I’ll simply let you enjoy reading what Meghan and Anne had to say about working on this 15-CD box set that was packaged in a detailed replica of one of Weird Al’s signature accordions, OK? Click here to read that interview – https://albumcoverhalloffame.wordpress.com/2021/07/28/interview-with-annie-stoll-and-meghan-foley-on-the-making-of-squeeze-box-for-weird-al-yankovic/
A conversation with Sony Music Entertainment Creative Directors Frank Harkins and Dave Bett – done over Zoom in mid-April, 2021 and updated via email in June/July, 2021 (edited for length and content) –
After exchanging some pleasantries and enjoying a brief discussion about how Frank Sinatra was awarded the first Grammy Award for album cover art (taking credit as art director on Frank Sinatra Sings For Only The Lonely), the interview begins in earnest…
Mike Goldstein, Album Cover Hall of Fame.com – Thanks to you both for joining me today on my first Zoom interview. It’s great that I don’t have to be scribbling everything down like a maniac! So, as you know, I’m in the middle of gathering info for a paper I’m writing. I’ve got a lot of information on the site for fans and one of the things I’ve realized I’ve never provided much info on was on box sets and how they’re made and why. Between box sets and limited edition packages, the past five years have seen a rise in sales, especially to baby boomers who are eager to own a piece of all of their favorites. I’ve always tended to cover just covers for LPs and CDs and the like and every year I try to interview the people who’ve won one or both of the Grammys, since there are only three awards in the packaging category. I’ve managed to interview more of the “Best Album Cover” award winners than those in the multiples over the years, but the past few years I’ve been able to interview the winners in the Box Set area. For example, I just finished an interview with Lawrence Azerrad, who recently won the Grammy for his Wilco box…
Dave Bett, Sony Music Entertainment – Yeah, I really loved that…
Mike G – but I wanted to make sure that I talked to “the big guys” who are working on sets all of the time. Not long ago, I talked to some of the folks at Rhino and you guys are another one of only a few significant makers – other than some of the smaller indies – and so I wanted to make sure that I had your take on these questions, such as “when you first consider putting together a collectible package, what are the questions you’re asking yourself first?” Perhaps a better question is “what is it that you’re trying to accomplish as you approach each project” and what is it about those projects that makes you want to put your resources behind them?
Dave B – I would say the big question is “is someone going to buy this”? (Laughs). And how much would they be willing to spend for it, and then we work backwards to see how much we can put into it and how much we can accomplish with that budget.
MG – Do you look through your catalog to see what might fit, or are you aiming at a particular demographic? What sort of data do you use to make these decisions?
Frank Harkins, Sony Music Entertainment – Dave’s right. A lot of this is sales-driven and we’re looking though anniversaries of releases and certain dates for special reissues. There’s a lot of stuff from the artist side, too – you’re familiar with Dylan’s “bootleg series”, which is just an ongoing collection which is really Bob-initiated. Things definitely come from a sales point of view, but there are also specific artists – maybe Dave can speak better to this than I can – say, Bruce Springsteen wants something for an anniversary of Born To Run… he’s going to get it, and we’ll have to work it out.
DB – Frank is working more with the catalog at Sony Music, so they have a lot of material to draw from for special editions of things. On my side at Columbia, it’s a lot of front-line stuff, so if we’re going to do a box set, it’s got to be someone with a big fan base – one devoted enough to spend the money and want that piece – someone like Bruce or Beyonce or Depeche Mode. You must be a pretty major artist with enough fans, but once they decide that they want to do that, we’ll work hard to make something special for them.
MG – So, do any of the artists on your roster who might not necessarily be a big draw but who might have a really decent catalog come to you and say “I’d like a box set” or something special for Record Store Day and then try to convince you to invest in them, or do they ever pay to get these packages made?
DB – If we ever do anything special for someone who doesn’t quite have the fan base to do “something big”, we’ll at least do a nice vinyl package for them. Maybe not a box set, but maybe a double album with a special booklet…
MG – So, more along the lines of a “special limited-edition” package…
DB – or something for Record Store Day. We do a lot of vinyl and sometimes certain artists will get to make “deluxe” ones. Frank would do more box sets than me…
Frank H – And also Mike, at least in the Legacy world and the catalog world, as I’d mentioned before, there are a lot of anniversary or special release or Record Store Day projects on our calendar. We’re always looking for special things for those dates and those become part of our annual release schedule.
DB – Sometimes there are things that start out as a 25th anniversary release that become a 27th anniversary release…
FH – …or a 35th anniversary (laughs). We always joke – and Dave’s been here for this – how many different ways can we package Mile Davis’ Kind of Blue. It’s a genius record, one of the greatest jazz records ever…
DB – …and so there are infinite ways..
FH – Exactly.
MG – While I used to get caught up in that whirlpool of having to own all of the latest things, ever since I had to pay for things, I’ve become a lot more selective and weaned myself off of that habit. For example, in the past couple of years, I’ve bought a couple of the Beatles reissues and I bought that Rolling Stones Let It Bleed deluxe set mainly because they had the pack of Robert Brownjohn album art prints included, which were just awesome. I hadn’t seen them before and they even included some alternate versions and sketches of the turntable cake…kinda wild! So, moving on, how do you determine what’s going to be included inside a box set or special package, besides the music? I’m referring to the booklets and all the stuff that you decide to throw in…
FH – Getting back to Dave’s earlier point, its definitely a P&L situation in that you need to find out what everything’s going to cost before you decide to include anything…We did a Lou Reed box a few years back (see below) and we were working with Laurie Anderson and she had some suggestions about paraphernalia that might go in there – we picked out some classic advertising bills and ticket stubs.
FH – It’s like what Dave did for his Grammy win for Bruce’s Darkness, where he did the notebook – you guys went thru Bruce’s actual notes from that record cycle, right?
DB – That item practically built itself in a way. There was a documentary being made as part of the box set and, in the making of the documentary, Thom Zimney – who was the director – got access to all of Bruce’s songwriting journals from the time, and when we realized that, we said “Let’s remake one of those notebooks.” We got a spiral-bound notebook and we took the “best of” pages from his notebooks, so that was an example of where it “told us” what it would be. We weren’t trying to do something that wouldn’t feel real, so that’s just one scenario. Each box set has its own set of points that make sense – if someone is into a certain kind of artwork, then maybe you’ll incorporate that. Whatever interests that artist or the things that inspired them – there can be source materials of any kind.
(Editor’s note – Dave won the award – his first Grammy – in 2012 along with his colleague, Michelle Holme, in the “Best Boxed/Special Limited-Edition Package” category for The Promise: The Darkness on the Edge of Town Story. The package’s CD/DVD discs – 3 of each – come packaged in a facsimile of a blue, spiral bound Eagle Line notebook Springsteen kept while working on this album).
MG – You always will ask “What have you got stuck in a drawer that might end up being of interest to your fans?”
FH – Yes. For that Lou box, we went down to his actual archives downtown for a week and just went through old posters and magazines and ads and old handbills and just poured over all of the ephemera that they have. We shot half of it and scanned the stuff we wanted to use. Dave has been to the Bruce Springsteen archive at Monmouth University, digging through it for cool stuff that hasn’t seen the light of day for 30 years.
DB – Sometimes we’ve been to archives where even they don’t know what they have. We’ll just go into a room and find cardboard boxes full of stuff – we’ve found originals that nobody knew that they even had…
FH – Pretty crazy!
MG – That happened a lot with some of the graphic artists and photographers I’ve worked with. Some have just thrown things into filing cabinets and tell themselves that they’ll get to organizing it some year. When I first started working with one artist, he simply told me that I should just come down to his place and dig through his storage and then, if I found something I wanted to use, just let him know. He really wasn’t going to find anything for me (Editor’s note – luckily, his daughter came to help him organize his collections and it sure made my working with him/them much easier going forward!).
FH – We’ve reached out to uber-fans from all over the world for Journey or Pearl Jam or AC/DC and we’ve actually enlisted them and have them on speed dial so, when we have these releases, we’ll call them and ask them “do you have this?” or “can you send us this?” So, a lot of times we’re going to third parties to get the “super-super fan” stuff that no one else has.
DB – You can make note that some of these fans are international – they’re not just in the West. We’ve had family members, too…Laurie Anderson, for example…
FH – Yes, and we have Jeff Buckley’s catalog, too, and we deal with his Mom – she’s the keeper of the flame of all of his archival stuff. Tons of family members have taken over the responsibility of all that stuff, too.
MG – Managing a legacy is an ongoing source of income for many of them, it seems. So, moving on – how do you make these products “collectible” and still worth the money – how do you achieve that balance and how far can you go, price-wise?
DB – Well, an art director will go as far as the price allows (laughs). The label tries to rein us in and not let us get too insane, so we don’t end up with something that just isn’t practical.
FH – A lot of times, a package is being sold “D2C” – direct to consumer – so maybe it’s going to be sold via the artist’s web site. They know that they’ll be able to sell 5000 of them for sure, so it doesn’t really matter what the P&L is…that was the case with Legacy’s Weird Al box set – the one that won a Grammy 2 years ago…
MG – Right, the one that looked like an accordion…
FH – Right, the accordion. And that was insanely expensive – I’m not going to go into the details, but – but Al has rabid fans and they had a good idea of how many they’d be able to sell through his web site and they sold out in a matter of hours, the went out via pre-sales.
DB – I had no idea that he had so many fans – he was a popular novelty artist – I gave him that – but seeing that package come to life it was like “Oh My God” – he’s got stronger fans than maybe any other artist I know of!
MG – I know that I spoke to the people who worked on that…
FH – Annie Stoll and Meghan Foley here at Sony did that package…
MG – Right, right, Annie and Meghan – I spoke to them a couple of years ago. It was almost a perfect design (Editor’s note – you’ll be able to read parts of my interview with them in the “bonus content” that’ll be posted immediately following this article’s publication).
FH – Yeah, it was great and, going back to price… with something like that, we really pushed the limit, but the way the deal was structured, we could… but that was an outlier.
DB – You did pre-orders, too, even before your manufactured it …
FH – They put the word out and took the temperature and saw how many they could probably make – production-wise – but most times Dave and I are just trying to come up with an idea and put everything against the wall and then begin shaving back, price-wise…Do we really need this to be metallic, or can we make it stock – we’re always trying to rein in prices for most artists because its just not worth it to the P&L of a project…
DB – I’d say that, overall, we’re not just art directors and, therefore, into things that are just so gimmicky.
MG – So, no $100,000 refrigerators stuffed with mementos…
Both – No…
DB – If it makes sense for the artist and the music, then great, but usually it’s just a gimmick…
MG – You know they sold two of those (Editor’s Note – the “box set in a refrigerator” I was referring to was the 2012 Ultimate Box Set released by San Francisco’s own The Residents, that included over 150 collectibles – special pressings of vinyl, CDs and DVDs, stage props, etc.).
FH – We did make an AC/DC amplifier at one time, too.
MG – Oh really? You’ll have to send me a picture of that.
(Dave throws up a heavy metal hand signal, and then I move on to the next question)
MG – I think you’ve already partially answered my next question since you’ve said how you source some of the things that’ll end up in a package, but I’d like you to illuminate us a bit about how you make sure that the work you’ll do on key parts of your main package and then any ancillary items – like booklets, other swag and promo materials, for example – you decide to include are based on the same design guide?
FH – Each package is its own unique thing – like when we were talking about Weird Al, we went in there with a bunch of ideas, as we do with any package – whether it’s deluxe like that or a regular box. You’ve got to start with the pre-production design department and say “we’re going to make these structures – it’s going to be two CDs or three LPs, we want a booklet to go here and we’re going to have this section over here for ephemera and memorabilia, etc. and so we’re going to work with the production team here at Sony that builds these structures for you before you even start designing it”. You’re looking for how much it’ll cost to make this unique structure per unit and then you’re trying to figure out what bells and whistles you can put on it, whether it’s going to be a die cut or foil or stamping or embossing – all those things that make a package feel really tactile…
MG – How did you decide to make an AC/DC amplifier to go with that particular package?
(Editor’s Note – this was part of the Backtracks Collectors Box Set put out by Sony/Legacy in 2011)
FH – I know that Dave was closer to that than me – what was that, Dave? Maybe it the band, or maybe Angus wanted it or …
DB – Anything with AC/DC is about noise and volume – it’s a given, so…
MG – Alright, so let’s get into the production side of things. Sony has a lot of people working internally that do a lot of the work, but I know that you also will work with agencies and photographers and illustrators and the like, so how do you choose a team to work on any particular project?
FH – From the Legacy standpoint, we work with a lot of different vinyl presses and right now, and Dave can attest to this, too. Vinyl is so popular – and we’re making so much product – that the presses are so backed up, so it comes down to what plant can handle this release date. It’s the same with the manufacturers that we use to actually build the boxes. It comes down to “can you guys really come in at or under budget and do it on our time frame” because they’re so backed up that, right now, our vinyl leads are 4 or 6 months – it’s crazy. You know, if I wanted to make a piece of vinyl – especially a box set – it’d take two full quarters to get in line behind everybody else. There’s been such an explosion in vinyl…
MG – Do you make them here, or do you go overseas or a combination of the two?
FH – All over. International and domestic.
DB – On the creative part of it, a lot of times box sets are made from pre-existing materials that also involve a lot of research, and then if you’re going to create something for the set, your designers may be creating reproductions of things that existed at the time of that earlier release. We once made harmonicas for an Aerosmith package, but then needed to make sure that we could make something that would hold that sort of stuff.
MG – On the pre-production side, for example, do you go to Annie Leibovitz or Danny Clinch and ask them to shoot something new for you…
DB – We might. It depends…we’re usually working from something that we’ve got. If it’s a “frontline” release – frontline releases are first-time-out, as opposed to reissues – it’s probably going to have the same cover as the “standard” version did, or we’ll pull elements from that and just enhance it and then build any new stuff that we’d want…
MG – So that begins to answer the next question about whether you mostly work with in-house creatives or do you go outside or are there a certain list of agencies that you go to all the time?
Both – Both.
FH – We do a lot in-house, but there are artists who use their own art directors all of the time. Dylan has his person, Bruce has his person – they do a lot since we work with them year after year on these releases. So, it’s mostly done in-house unless an artist comes with a creative director..
DB – Pearl Jam had their own people, and Jack White has his own people…
MG – So is there a “typical” product? When you think about doing a box set or special limited-edition package, is there a template in your head that you follow to approach these projects?
FH – There’s a basic approach where there’s not a lot of super-unique bells and whistles – we’ll have a box, depending on how many pieces of vinyl or CDs that are going in there – there are definite tiers. There are those like Weird Als and then there are the more-common multi-CD holders you’ve seen a million times – the clamshell-like thing. It really depends on the artist and the budget..
DB – Even when the box is going to be “just a box”, we have to ask, “what kind of box”, “how does it open” and other things like that. There are always variations.
MG – So, is the music that’s going to be included always chosen first before everything else? Or do those selections increase or decrease as you go into production?
FH – Usually, they’ll come out and say “OK, we’re going to re-release this record”, or “We’re going to bundle all of these records together”. You’re working with new art and kind of creating for a new box set, whereas with catalog stuff – you know what release you’re putting out and then make the decision – “Does this warrant a box set?” or “Does the artist want a box set?” “Will this be a single LP jacket, or will we need a gatefold?” Then we work from there.
DB – They’ll always come to us and say “This is the album” or “These are the albums”, and then we’ll want to add demos or a live concert or unreleased stuff.
FH – There’s usually some added-value so that the fan who already has these recordings gets something extra. On new box sets, like on Dave’s end…what was the Beyonce book that you just did, Dave?
DB – The 600 page book…
MG – I see…so, my next question might not be so apropos to what you’ve been talking about, since you’re not really re-designing an album cover… you’re repackaging things that already have an existing design…but let’s say, for example – remember the big Woodstock box that came out a couple of years ago? When you get going on something like that, where there are lots of artists involved – alive and dead – and all of the labels who were also involved…they had to, at some point, choose something that would represent the entire Woodstock experience as the cover for the box. When you run into those situations when you’re doing compilations…
DB – You can’t focus on one artist when there are many artists in a package. If it’s something like Woodstock, you use something about the stage or the crowd…all of the artists were seeing those things, so it represents something they’ll all remember.
MG – But if you’re doing a compilation like “The Music of Mozart” or “Jazz Thru The 1970s,” how do you decide what the cover of something like that will look like?
DB – We had something like that with the Depeche Mode box set (see below) that was nominated last year for a Grammy. That was a lot of albums – perhaps all of them – so it became a matter of making it very simple, dealing with the type and textures, making it iconic in its own right – when you got it, you saw everything, the whole variety of it…
FH – We just did a new compilation of Miles Davis cuts for Record Store Day called Champions, which is some selections from the Jack Johnson sessions, with some new tracks, and that cover was just an old vintage shot of Miles we had researched…sometimes you’re creating a new cover for recordings from another era.
MG – The image always works best when it reflects the period it’s from…We’re getting close to the end here and I really appreciate your candidness so far…so, taking into account all of the project coordination, printing, etc., how long does a project typically take, or is that a silly question to ask?
FH – Yes! Well, its not…it could be turned around as quickly as four or five months…I know that from conception to instore to online…
DB – I had one that took three years.
MG – I’m sorry, how long?
DB – Three years.
MG – What would have delayed a project for that long?
DB – Sometimes, you have to wait for certain key things to be finished. Before you move on to the next step, you have to wait for the artist’s availability to weigh in on what they like, and it’s just the time it takes sometimes to put the things together. There are times when you’re gathering things and sometimes the research can take six months to do because you just don’t have everything available. If you don’t know where things are, you have to go find them…
FH – I think that Weird Al took at least two years, with half of it figuring out “Where are we going to make this thing – China, or here – or what’s going to be the most expensive thing? What will the freight costs be? Fly it or ship it by boat?” Lots of things that all add up…
DB – Prototypes…
MG – Getting approvals…
FH – Yep. And sometimes, the artists will lose interest for a little while and then it is shelved and then it pops up again in a year.
DB – Maybe they started this box and then they decide that they want to put out a new piece of music before this set comes out, so then they put things on hold and come back to it later…
MG – And then some of them have to wait until they’re out of rehab (sorry). Shifting gears to a question about how you manage to stay on top of all of the details…are there any tools – project management tools, art production tools, etc. – that you guys use on a regular basis that you think help you produce a better product while working within the time and money constraints you have to work within? How do you manage yourselves – especially this past year – do you use Slack or anything similar?
DB – Well, this past year was all Teams and Zoom…
FH – It’s funny – we had Slack and were just getting used to it and then the IT guys said “OK everyone, we’re going to use Teams now.” They gave us a week to figure that out, right Dave? It was crazy…
DB – We had to learn everything quickly during the pandemic…
FH – I literally just yesterday had a meeting about a box set with a vendor on Zoom – we’re doing just like what you are these days – just staring at somebody’s face on a screen, talking about stock and how much product we can get. It’s been difficult, but we’re still doing it. It’s been a pain because, for us, all of our physical proofs used to come into the office and we’d be able to say “This is too green” or “This is too yellow” or change this or that but rarely, since lockdown, are we sent a physical proof unless it was a huge artist and we really needed to see stuff. It’s all PDF approvals now.
DB – We’re actually talking about going on to the pressroom floor via video…
FH – How are they going to do that?
DB – They’re going to set up a camera in the press room…
FH – So how are you going to be able to tell whether what’s green is really green?
DB – In this case, its more about how they’re going about doing an embossing, so we can make sure that the embossing is being done right. It’s being printed on a silver base, too, so its not so much about color as it is just making sure that technically its being done right.
MG – You’re bringing up an interesting point. A long time ago, I used to work for a cartoon animation company, at the time when cartoons were done by people sitting at tables painting cels. As you probably know, most of the “grunt work” was done in Japan or Korea or Viet Nam and, at the time, the company had to send people over to sit and watch because there would be times that we’d have a color key and yet one artist might paint things a bit more brown while another would make it more orange – one artist might have one set of watercolor paints while another’s would be a bit different, so there was no consistency so we had to have people living there to watch over this.
FH – Quality control.
MG – So, that’s what I’m wondering about. When you send packaging overseas for economy’s sake, how do you make sure that you’re going to get exactly what you want, or are you ever surprised when things show up?
DB – Yes, we’ve had some nightmares like that. We’ve had to release something simultaneously coming from three different plants…it was a nightmare.
FH – Back in the day, we used to send people to the press a lot more. I actually went for the Miles Davis/John Coltrane box, which we’d sent to Hong Kong. Those days are long gone, but they were so intent on making sure important details made it – it was a metallic box. I’m not sure whether we’re going to send anyone to Hong Kong again but Jeff Schulz – who Dave mentioned, the AD who works with Depeche Mode – was set and ready to go to Germany or Prague I think for a press run last year before we shut down…We used to have bigger budgets to send people to the press – it was a must, because if anything came back and it was wrong, somebody would catch Hell for it but now, budget-wise, we’re not sending out as many people as we used to.
MG – So would you have any specific anecdotes you’d like to share about a project that may have gone slightly awry? Of course, I don’t want to get anyone in trouble…
FH – I don’t think that we’re going to mention artists names, but Dave and I have gone through a few nightmares…
DB – There have been times when something has come off the press and a page has been backed up to the wrong page…
FH – Or it’s upside-down.
DB – If something comes in and its wrong, you just have to re-do it.
FH – So we’ve scrapped tons of materials – thousands of packages that were totally wrong…
MG – Well, collectors are going to want those! You’ll have your own “Butcher Covers”.
FH – I’m not going to mention the artist, but I got to do a box set within the last few years and the front covers came back upside down and backwards and it was a mess – a real mess – and we just had to scrap the whole thing. It’s also a pain in the ass because there are dates you’re going to miss now and you’ll try to catch up, but it happens…
DB – The rule of thumb is to anticipate the worst that can happen and be prepared.
MG – OK, so my last question is really a philosophical one…When you’re working with an artist and thinking about what to include in a set, you’re obviously thinking about the fans and how the artist is trying to use this product to build a stronger relationship with the fans, so how do you “keep the ball rolling”? Once you’ve delivered a box set, are there extras you include that let you follow-up with the fans, letting them know that once they’ve purchased a set, you might find a hidden “easter egg” in the content on the jump drive you got with the package…will something like that help you keep things going?
FH – We used to do more things like thumb drives and downloads or things like that, but we’re not doing that so much anymore. We really just try to research and dig and find some things that someone has not seen before…if you go online, there are tons of threads from hardcore fans who’ll rip you apart for including the wrong release date or telling you that the B track you included wasn’t actually recorded for that record or if you’ve given them something that was already included in a previous box set. They’ll complain loudly online “Why did I have to spend all of this money when you guys aren’t really giving me something of extra value?” and we have to consider this when we’re coming up with things to include. You need to make sure that the package is worth the price of admission, since you’re talking to hardcore fans who probably have everything else. If you can provide them with something that they don’t have, they’re going to be fine.
DB – We have put things into the packages that only a handful of people are going to get – maybe it’s a golden ticket or something. Now you’ve got NFTs and you can get front-row seats for life if you get the right one…
MG – I’m now working on a separate article on that topic because a couple of the artists I cover have begun to experiment with this…You know Roger Dean, the artist who does the covers for YES? He’s working with one of the new NFT agencies (Editor’s Note – a studio called THE MTAPHR) to see if he can now start extending the value of his work in the NFT space.
FH – Dave’s working with an artist I’m sure you’ve heard of – Grimes – who has a pitch-perfect audience for those NFTs as she’s been a digital artist herself for a while…she just sold around $8 million worth – is that right, Dave?
MG – And she doesn’t need the money, from what I understand…
FH – Yeah, she’s going to be OK. She has a good rainy day fund.
(Editor’s Note – in case you’re not closely following the entertainment news, Grimes is married to Tesla’s Elon Musk).
FH – So, if you’re someone like Roger Dean, this is perfect. If I was an artist – particularly one with some music industry background – I’d start printing out NFTs like there’s no tomorrow.
MG – Well, some of them are, and the ones that were wise enough to keep the rights for their work – or at least who negotiated what they can and can’t do with the work they were hired to deliver – they’re going to do alright because I think that its one of those things that fans might like. If you were a big art collector like Paul Allen, you might go buy the original Roger Dean painting for something, but if you’re a fan, you can get the animated NFT he might do for let’s say YESYEARS, with something flying around the mountain…
So, unless you guys have anything more you’d like to share, I’d like to say thank you to the both of you, and keep up the great work.
Both – Thanks Mike, it’s been nice talking to you.
About our interviewees, Dave Bett and Frank Harkins –
Dave Bett – some personal favorites among his many album projects – Patti Smith – Banga and Twelve; Bruce Springsteen – The Rising; John Legend – Get Lifted and Bigger Love; The Avett Brothers – I and Love and You; Tori Amos – Scarlet’s Walk and The Beekeeper; Keb’ Mo’ – Keep It Simple and Peace…Back by Popular Demand; Wu-Tang Clan – Iron Flag; Eazy-E – It’s On (Dr. Dre) 187um Killa; Gorilla Biscuits – Start Again; Joe Satriani – Surfing with the Alien; Jorman Kaukonen – Blue Country Heart; Common – One Day It’ll All Make Sense; Big Pun – Yeeeah Baby; Aerosmith – Honkin’ on Bobo; Dan Wilson – Free Life
(b. 1956 in Shrewsbury, New Jersey, USA) Dave has enjoyed a creative spirit since childhood (voted “most artistic” in 8th grade), and has wanted nothing more than to make art ever since. He studied illustration, photography and design, graduating with a BFA degree from the University of Kansas. He moved to New York and fell into an ad agency job, learning the business of art, until taking a hiatus to earn an MFA in photography from Cornell University.
A friend’s recommendation turned into a job with an indie label, Relativity Records, where he headed a small art department designing for a variety of music: guitar heroes, heavy metal, NYC hardcore, indie rock, hip hop, gospel, and gangsta rap. Every project seemed an education in itself, a life experience. Relativity was bought by Sony Music, later merged with Loud Records, and eventually Dave was brought to Sony Music’s main creative group and became VP/Creative Director for Columbia Records, a position he holds today. There he has had the privilege of designing for its incredible roster of artists, working with a talented team of art directors (including a number of Grammy nominees and winners), world-class photographers, illustrators and fine artists.
In 2004, Dave and Sheri Lee were Grammy-nominated in 2003 for art direction on the limited edition package of Tori Amos’ Scarlet’s Walk. Dave and Michelle Holme won the 2012 Grammy for best boxed/special limited edition of Bruce Springsteen’s Darkness on the Edge of Town.
You can see more of the work that Dave and his team has done on the SME/Columbia Records web site – https://www.columbiarecords.com/
Frank Harkins – notable album cover credits include – Bon Jovi – These Days; Mariah Carey – Merry Christmas; Incubus – S.C.I.E.N.C.E and Enjoy Incubus; System of a Down – System of a Down; Afghan Whigs – 1965; Kelly Clarkson – Thankful; Staind – Illusion of Progress; Willie Nelson – Heroes; Train – Save Me San Francisco;
(b. 1970, Massachusetts, USA) After receiving his BFA degree from the School of Visual Arts in New York City, Frank began his album art-related career in 1993 as a designer working for Mercury Records, where he designed packages for label artists including Bon Jovi, Brian McKnight, Joan Osborne and Vanessa Williams. In 1996, he moved on to a new role as an Art Director at Sony Music Entertainment, where he expanded his portfolio to include packages for major acts including Good Charlotte, Incubus, Michael Jackson, System of A Down and Train, among others. Continuing on in 2001 as a Senior Art Director at RCA Records during its transition from a unit of BMG into a Clive Davis-led division that later became part of the newly-merged Sony BMG, Frank led the design team for label greats including Kelly Clarkson, Daughtry, Bruce Hornsby and Katharine McPhee.
In 2006, Harkins moved over to become Senior Art Director at Sony Music where, for the next seven years, he created memorable covers for a broad range of label acts including Sara Barielles, Coheed & Cambria, Norah Jones, Elvis Presley, Staind and Luther Vandross, after which he was promoted to the role of Vice President and Creative/Design Director for Sony Music Entertainment’s Legacy Recording’s group – a position he’s held to this date. Leading a team of 10+ staffers and an impressive cast of freelance contributors, Frank’s team has created packages, promotional graphics/content and merchandise for major label acts including Mariah Carey, Johnny Cash, Miles Davis, Foo Fighters, Willie Nelson and Rage Against The Machine, to name just a few.
Frank was the winner of a Grammy Award in 2000 in the “Best Boxed Recording Package” category for the work on the packaging for Miles Davis & John Coltrane – The Complete Columbia Recordings 1955-1961
More information on this artist can be found on his web site at http://www.frankharkins.com/
This article and the accompanying screen grab images are Copyright 2021 by Mike Goldstein/AlbumCoverHallofFame.com – All rights reserved. All other images used to illustrate this article are owned by Sony Music Entertainment and are used with their permission.
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